tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post3816157993104702218..comments2023-10-02T14:33:18.136+01:00Comments on The Very Fluffy Diary of Millennium Dome, Elephant: Day 4535: DOCTOR WHO: Matt FinishMillennium Domehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/08430269096817934037noreply@blogger.comBlogger21125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-57100982084040302822013-06-09T18:36:13.440+01:002013-06-09T18:36:13.440+01:00Wow -- I couldn't agree more with almost all o...Wow -- I couldn't agree more with almost all of your post. Matt would be my favorite Doctor by a nose (okay, a chin) if he'd had the run of classics you rightly point out he didn't. And I too loved this half-season so much; I'd add "Hide" to the list of greats for sure. I agree with Alex's take on "The Eleventh Hour"; great in lots of ways, but "still cooking," with the Sherlocky bits, the prudish asides, and so on.<br /><br />I think the only place I must categorically disagree is on the very subjective matter of Murray Gold's music. :) I don't like either of the Doctor themes you mentioned, felt that Gold finally got to a point where I could like his arrangement of the title them in season 7b, and generally would like his contribution to the series chopped at least in half. But that's me.<br /><br />Overall, thanks for explicating so wonderfully the mixed feelings we share about this era. Once I feared a change of showrunner; now I'm looking forward to it, if only for a fresh start.<br /><br />P.S. "The Two Doctors" is the only televised Colin Baker story I actually enjoy. "Revelation" is good but always leaves me feeling queasy.encyclopshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17779078568723437744noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-82615965440853777662013-06-06T14:30:32.388+01:002013-06-06T14:30:32.388+01:00Indeed, I was astonished by the negativity here to...Indeed, I was astonished by the negativity here towards <i>The Beast Below</i>, which <a href="http://reprog.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/the-beast-below-11th-doctor-episode-2/" rel="nofollow">I loved</a>, writing:<br /><br /><i>There was so much to like. Karen Gillan’s portrayal of Amy was again excellent, Matt Smith was a much better Doctor than previously, there were several laugh-out-loud funny moments, and lots of delicious little details, such as the use of London Underground-style lifts (elevators for you Americans). In fact, the episode was a visual feast, and I will certainly watch it again just to catch all the details of the sets. And again to catch all the dialogue.</i><br /><br />But one thing I have learned about Who is that even among people who love the show, there is always an astonishing level of disagreement about individual episodes. In particular, Gavin at Lucid Frenzy seems to hate the ones I love and like the ones I don't, but I see the same thing with all the reviewers I respect.<br />Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-18899916317028195892013-06-06T14:23:45.823+01:002013-06-06T14:23:45.823+01:00I think I remember "The Beast Below" mor...I think I remember "The Beast Below" more fondly than you, mon Alex.<br /><br />Looking back at the reviews, it seems I had more interesting things to say about it too. (While I'm trying painfully hard to be nice about "Victory").<br /><br />With hindsight it's easy to see the flaws - all Moffat's usual tropes: the poetry, the presense of child actors, the muffed-up continuity references, the recycling of old ideas. But there's also a touch of sharp satire on politics the week before an election, and it at least captures the "dark fairystory" that Moffat was trying for, whihc at the time was novel.<br /><br />It also, perhaps retrospectively (though Moff has been thinking this for some time), foreshadows "The Name of the Doctor": the Doctor threatening to lobotomise the whales says "I'll have to go and get a new name because I won't <i>be</i> the Doctor any more."Millennium Domehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430269096817934037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-54424128696460047792013-06-06T12:34:01.431+01:002013-06-06T12:34:01.431+01:00Oh, I agree about Colin as visual performer -- som...Oh, I agree about Colin as visual performer -- something I pointed out in my Mindless Ones piece on Trial.<br /><br />Mike, I'd advise listening to The Holy Terror before playing it for your kids -- that one might well be disturbing -- but any of the others mentioned should be OK.Andrew Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07412263807838661843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-91141000519982114792013-06-06T12:30:52.598+01:002013-06-06T12:30:52.598+01:00Let me add my cry to all the agreement! I’ve also ...Let me add my cry to all the agreement! I’ve also been won over by Matt, for me bobbing way up in my favourites but, as you correctly report me saying, just wishing he had a string of great stories to fulfil his potential. I keep really wanting to put on some DVDs in which to enjoy his performance, because I always do, but glance at each and think, ‘Hmm, don’t fancy that one much…’ Shame, as I can think of about a dozen stretches of, say, three-to-six stories in a row that are just sheer pleasure, even with Doctors I rate much less highly.<br /><br />So I feel much like I did in early 1987 – I loved the Doctor and wanted more from him, but thought the series would be better off if other people had gone instead*.<br /><br />I think you may be right about <i>Victory of the Daleks</i> being fandom’s former Mr Can Do No Wrong (my mileage may vary) – perhaps because fandom’s very shallow, or because the Daleks are very big. Heretically, I quite like some elements of <i>Victory</i> – not the big one, obviously – but a lot of it was fun, even the nicked bits, and it was a huge relief to me that the Daleks survived to battle another day. I’d loved an awful lot of Russell’s writing, but Dalek armies growing from nothing like watercress and then being absolutely wiped out, and again, and again, had got very tired. For me, I loved Matt in <i>The Eleventh Hour</i> (and, before then, actually from his big ‘It’s me!’ interview in <i>Confidential</i>), but even in that there were bits of the writing that made me recoil – notably Moffat’s attitude to sex, that cringing mixture of titillation and prescription like a slightly more right-on version of the <i>Daily Mail</i>.<br /><br />It was <i>The Beast Below</i> that sank early for me, for many reasons, but mostly because it was just dull. It felt like some really, really flat fanwank that wanted to do both Russell and Bob and didn’t have any ideas in it and trowelled everything on (compare to the positions for their Doctors of <i>The End of the World</i> and <i>The Ark In Space</i>). And that’s what’s really shocked me about the last few years. Several of the stories in his reign have just bored the socks off me, usually ones that have seemed terribly up themselves with characters I don’t really care about just doing the same old schtick. And then paradoxically un-doing them. Mike’s “Happily, I was <i>completely</i> wrong on the latter. Sadly, I was mostly wrong on the former, too” feels so sad but true. <br /><br />But back to Matt: he is indeed the definitive ‘old man in a young man’s body’, and fantastic from the start. I will miss him. But I really loved Colin in Spring 1987 and grew to love Sylv, too, so here’s hoping…<br /><br /><br />*Sorry, Andrew, but I’m rather with Richard on a lot of Colin’s TV stories, though I’d certainly rate <i>Revelation</i> as one of the series’ very best. I think Colin himself really flowers across <i>Trial</i> but the scripts meander, though I do have a real soft spot for <a href="http://loveandliberty.blogspot.co.uk/2011/09/dvd-taster-doctor-who-trial-of-time.html" rel="nofollow"> <i>The Mysterious Planet</i> </a>, that <i>Varos</i> starts and finishes weakly but is good when it’s got going, and that while <i>The Two Doctors</i> has a lot of problems for me I think Colin is utterly sublime in it and steals it from all the guest stars. And ‘me too’ on how utterly fantastic <i>Jubilee</i> is – still for my money the best thing out of Big Finish – though while I’d say Colin has a lot more great stories on audio, it’s still always a pleasure to <i>see</i> him even when he’s given rotten lines: his is a very inventively visual performance, and always terribly watchable. Excellent BF lists multiplying above, but I’ve already written too much, so I’ll shut up!Alex Wilcockhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03364653159038708678noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-83809664514027550362013-06-06T12:29:06.527+01:002013-06-06T12:29:06.527+01:00Many thanks for all recommendations. Regarding &qu...Many thanks for all recommendations. Regarding "suitable for children", I should have said that they are all big fans of the current TV series, and not too seriously creeped out by it. You seem to be saying that on that basis, all the audios that have been mentioned would be OK for them.<br /><br />I do not <i>want</i> the Bonnie Langford character to be redeemed, thank you very much :-)<br />Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-53294703624456274222013-06-06T12:17:05.049+01:002013-06-06T12:17:05.049+01:00Also, there's a more recent series of adventur...Also, there's a more recent series of adventures with Colin and India Fisher as Charley Pollard, a companion who has already been travelling with the Paul McGann Doctor.<br /><br />It does timey-wimey better than Moffat.<br /><br /><br /><br />There's also a charming trilogy with Frazer Hines as Jamie if you like "The Two Doctors" (which you don't); and audio adventures with Bonnie Langford that do almost as much to redeem the character of Mel as they've done for the sixth Doctor.Millennium Domehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430269096817934037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-59233482398870303032013-06-06T12:12:35.661+01:002013-06-06T12:12:35.661+01:00They're both quite dark in places, and have qu...They're both quite dark in places, and have quite a morbid sense of humour to them. Without knowing your kids I wouldn't know how well those two would go down -- I could see them really enjoying them, or being quite upset. They're definitely aimed at adults (Holy Terror more so than Jubilee).<br /><br />If you're going to choose one to listen to with the kids, I'd suggest Davros by Lance Parkin. Not as good as the other two, but not as potentially disturbing either. But we're very off-topic now...Andrew Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07412263807838661843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-29006204163583396002013-06-06T12:12:12.509+01:002013-06-06T12:12:12.509+01:00Completely endorse what Andrew is saying about Col...Completely endorse what Andrew is saying about Colin on audio. If you ahven't heard any, do check them out, starting with "The Marian Conspiracy".<br /><br />Big Finish have allowed him to do many of the things that he wanted to do on the TV but was thwarted by either JNT's light-entertainment style or Eric Saward's, er, misconception of the character.<br /><br />I'd probably say that "Jubilee" and "The Holy Terror" are PG - there's implied torture in both, and a screaming Dalek. Well, you know what "Dalek" is like.<br />Millennium Domehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430269096817934037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-70135461087034832822013-06-06T12:06:36.376+01:002013-06-06T12:06:36.376+01:00Thanks, I'll look them both out.
Would they b...Thanks, I'll look them both out.<br /><br />Would they be suitable for children? (Our youngest is ten.) If so, we'd enjoy listening to the on long car journeys.<br />Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-71608654346581705582013-06-06T12:02:48.873+01:002013-06-06T12:02:48.873+01:00Colin is *definitely* better in the audios than on...Colin is *definitely* better in the audios than on TV -- and also, in the stories with Evelyn (who's the companion in Jubilee) he's mellowed and less pompous and aggressive -- personally I like those characteristics in Colin's Doctor, but they've not gone away altogether, just the sharp edges rounded off.<br /><br />Jubilee is definitely the one for you, I think -- sharp satire, a real human story, good acting (Martin Jarvis and Rosalind Ayre), and a good alternate-timeline/paradox SF premise.<br /><br />Another one you might like, by the same writer, is The Holy Terror, which is *very* like the dark fairytales Moffat does (and clearly inspired at least one idea in The Empty Child). That one's very, very Pratchett.Andrew Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07412263807838661843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-16343875909861220082013-06-06T11:53:40.288+01:002013-06-06T11:53:40.288+01:00Matt, dammit you've spotted another one I miss...Matt, dammit you've spotted another one I missed! "The Doctor's Wife" is probably my favourite Doc11 story too!<br /><br />I'm rather fond of "The Girl Who Waited" as well, but I do know that for Alex it was - to put it mildly - a timey-wimey too far, and for that reason alone, I cannot call it a <i>classic</i>.<br /><br />And I agree that it was time to have two companions after Russell had rung all the changes on the Doctor/girl dynamic. But Rory wasn't given proper co-equal treatment (too often the butt of Moffat's jokes, though Arthur Darvill made the long-suffering work), and as I say they needed to leave sooner. (Certainly hanging on after "The God Complex" was very overstaying their welcome.)<br />Millennium Domehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430269096817934037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-27961590526553287982013-06-06T11:50:17.343+01:002013-06-06T11:50:17.343+01:00Mike, I don't think anything in Colin's TV...Mike, I don't think anything in Colin's TV era would be to your taste -- there's a mean-spirited cynicism to a lot of the scripts that I think you'd probably react to in much the same way you did to that Richard Herring DVD I recommended, for much the same reasons. But if you haven't tried his audio stuff, I think you might *really* like Jubilee, which has much of what you like about Moffat, done better than he does even at his best.Andrew Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07412263807838661843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-47291656680335849102013-06-06T11:49:13.013+01:002013-06-06T11:49:13.013+01:00Mike, I think you've nailed it there!
It'...Mike, I think you've nailed it there!<br /><br />It's well known that of all the writers Russell employed, Moffat was the one whose scripts didn't get rewritten by the boss. But I suspect that what Russell did give Moffat was the discipline to write the whole story, beginning middle and end, and the focus to concentrate on just the story he's telling.<br /><br />Once Moff takes charge he's got other responsibilities (not to mention "Sherlock") and starts "winging it".<br /><br />Of course, it's also very much harder to write something a season long than just two episodes, but the problem, as you say, is that we <i>expected</i> him to be able to do it.Millennium Domehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430269096817934037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-85134249833058803442013-06-06T11:48:54.023+01:002013-06-06T11:48:54.023+01:00Hmm. i'd add "The Doctors Wife" and ...Hmm. i'd add "The Doctors Wife" and "The Girl who Waited" to proper, flat out excellent 11th Doctor stories, although you're a lot more down on that whole series than I am. Personally i really liked the dynamic of having two companions after a long run of "doctor plus one" series, but that may be the 5th Doctor fan in me talking ;-) <br /><br />...And I don't get the apparent hate piled on this recent series either. Matthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10546836447177223646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-53595492322614080722013-06-06T11:46:11.036+01:002013-06-06T11:46:11.036+01:00I agree with most of those criticisms (though not ...I agree with most of those criticisms (though not the opening of The Two Doctors, which I really like), but I'd still say that they're all decent stories. Vengeance I'd consider a bona-fide classic -- yes, it sags in places, has the odd bad moment and so on, but so does Genesis.<br /><br />I agree with you about the relative merits of Saward and Colin though...Andrew Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07412263807838661843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-15413004015713191132013-06-06T11:43:08.824+01:002013-06-06T11:43:08.824+01:00But I'd like to think that I'm doing a ret...<i>But I'd like to think that I'm doing a retrospective of the 11th Doctor Era too, more than just Mr Matt.</i><br /><br />Yes, of course -- I hope you didn't read my comment as a criticism.<br /><br />The irony for me was that at the beginning of the current era, I was really excited about Moffat's role (having absolutely loved all four of his pre-Smith stories), and completely turned off by Smith, based only on having seen photos of this scrawny gangly kid with no presence or heft to him.<br /><br />Happily, I was <i>completely</i> wrong on the latter. Sadly, I was mostly wrong on the former, too.<br /><br />Many of the things Moffat gets criticised for bother me not at all. I always find it easier to forgive over-ambition than a competent by-the-numbers story. But his abandonment of narrative causality is a huge disappointment -- not only because it's so important, but because his early NewWho stories were so very strong in that area. The Empty Child/Doctor Dances is probably the single most coherent Doctor Who plot I can think of from any era: when the mystery/threat had a resolution that made <i>perfect</i> sense in its own terms, and all the clues were there. And Blink is about the most coherent, all-ends-tied-up time-travel story I know.<br /><br />In light of that beginning, it's been really disheartening to watch the coherence of storytelling gradually fall apart. Series 6 was the most frustrating, because it was <i>this</i> close to being the best that Doctor Who has ever been -- then threw it away in what feels more than anything like sheer carelessness. I never thought I would see a more ludicrously overcomplicated plot the the one in Resurrection Of The Daleks, but the Silence's plot to kill the Doctor has it comprehensively beaten.<br /><br />So I really hope someone can just sit down with Steven and say "cut out maybe 20% of the new ideas you throw at us, and use the time to properly resolve the other 80%. You know, like you did in The Empty Child".<br /><br />BTW., The Two Doctors is the only Colin Baker story I've seen, and I found it almost unwatchable. Terrible story, terrible direction, <i>terrible</i> acting. Only Troughton's involvement made it tolerable.<br />Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-19946462597748052402013-06-06T11:41:55.635+01:002013-06-06T11:41:55.635+01:00I'd agree that there are good things about all...I'd agree that there are good things about all those stories, but I'd also qualify that by saying:<br /><br />"Vengeance on Varos" is better in concept than in execution;<br /><br />"The Two Doctors" needs dramatically re-editing (I know everyone loves Pat, but it ought to open with Colin as it is his series), and a director who, well, directs;<br /><br />"The Mysterious Planet" isn't actually very mysterious, and I'd rather the Doctor didn't use the "you're only a machine" line to Drathro when the problem is that he's clearly sapient;<br /><br />And "Mindwarp" really needed at least one of the writer or the script editor to be able to answer the lead actor's not unreasonable question "what of this is actually real?"<br /><br />"Revelation of the Daleks", I grant you, is a genuine classic and I should't have forgotten it, just because "Jubilee" is better ;)<br /><br />And Colin - like Matt - is brilliant in all his stories, often the only thing making them at all watchable. Things picked up for the series when <i>his</i> script editor left, too.Millennium Domehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430269096817934037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-16926751997976340182013-06-06T11:30:07.337+01:002013-06-06T11:30:07.337+01:00Agreed with almost all of this, especially about t...Agreed with almost all of this, especially about the 2013 series being Smith's best (unfortunately it got good pretty much exactly when I lost net access, so I watched almost all of it in one day, the day The Name Of The Doctor was broadcast), and about Lawrence's book being great.<br /><br />But before Jennie gets in, surely at the very least Colin had five 'decent' televised stories -- Vengeance On Varos, The Two Doctors, Revelation Of The Daleks, The Mysterious Planet and Mindwarp. Only a couple of those are *great*, but they're all very watchableAndrew Hickeyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07412263807838661843noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-72499750043801840232013-06-06T11:26:57.607+01:002013-06-06T11:26:57.607+01:00You're quite right, I am talking about Moffat ...You're quite right, I am talking about Moffat more than Matt, and in part I agree that it's because it's easier to criticise than prase. But I'd like to think that I'm doing a retrospective of the 11th Doctor Era too, more than just Mr Matt.Millennium Domehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08430269096817934037noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-22974616.post-83747606531652430222013-06-06T11:20:56.466+01:002013-06-06T11:20:56.466+01:00Very interesting. Notable that in an article osten...Very interesting. Notable that in an article ostensible about Matt Smith, you found yourself mostly writing about Steven Moffatt -- I think, because there's so much more to say about where things go wrong than when they go right.<br /><br />I'll put my cards on the table and say that from about his fourth episode, Smith had firmly established himself as my all-time favourite Doctor (ahead of 9 and 4, since you ask), More than any other Doctor, he is <i>believable</i>. He convinces as an 1100-year-old man in the body of a thirty-year-old with the spirit of an eight-year-old. And that for me pretty much nails the essence of what Doctor Who is about.<br /><br />I will miss him terribly. The new man has an awful lot to live up to.Mike Taylorhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06039663158335543317noreply@blogger.com